Dr. Kristopher Koudelka joined PLNU in 2014 after having taught for several years in his home state of Wisconsin. His science interests lie at the molecular level. By giving students a firm foundation in how chemical structure gives a molecule function and reactivity, they have the basis to understand any biological system. Koudelka’s research centers on the chemical modification of plant and bacteria viruses for use as drug delivery and imaging vehicles. His students specifically engineer viral nanoparticles (VNPs) to efficiently and specifically transport drugs to only sites of disease (i.e., cancer). Koudelka also creates online content for publishers as a way to further engage students in novel ways. He currently serves a Professor of Biology and Associate Dean of STEM.
Listen to his Lomacast: A Point Loma Nazarene University Podcast below:
More about Lomacast: A Point Loma Nazarene University Podcast
Join us as we dive into engaging conversations with faculty, students, alumni, and thought leaders who are making a difference on campus and beyond. Each episode explores a range of topics from academic excellence to spiritual growth and social impact. Whether you are part of the PLNU community or simply curious, this podcast offers insights and uplifting narratives that resonate with our purpose.
Episode Transcript
Hello and welcome to Lomacast. A Point Loma Nazarene University podcast. My name is Jim Daichendt. I am the provost and chief academic officer here at Point Loma. And this week I have the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Kris Koudelka. Kris is a professor of biology and most recently has taken on the role of Associate Dean of the School of STEM. In our interview, we talk a bit about the science curriculum here at the university and some of the misconceptions that folks have about science and the way we think about science which is incredibly relevant for things that have happened within the past four to five years. We also dig into the curriculum specifically here and how it differs from some of our neighboring universities, the opportunities for labs that students have during the semester, but also the summer research portion of our curriculum. I hope you take some time and listen and thanks for joining us. Dr. Kris Koudelka, it's good to have you on Lomacast.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, I'm pleased.
We've known each other for a long time now. We've worked together at Point Loma. You precede me in my role. So, how long have you been here at the university?
Just barely.
So I officially have a full decade in. So here 10 years.
Yeah, that's pretty significant. And when we look at professors that are a decade or two decades into their careers, it's hard to believe where you started from, right? And I can remember my own professors thinking, oh, my gosh, who are these people that have PhDs behind their names, lots of research, and work with equipment that's incredibly difficult to comprehend for an 18 to 19 year old. Did you ever see yourself as a professor when you were a young person?
No, not at all. In fact, if you went back to my hometown, there's probably people who would cringe to realize that I have this position. And so, yeah, it wasn't where I was first going. I mean, I, I did what most science students do is they're thinking pre-health something. And so when I started out, I thought I was going to be a veterinarian. And, that was a fun path. I mean, I still love animals. And animals are important part of my life, but one of the cool things, and I tell my students is that internships end up being really important. So I spent four years basically being a vet tech, did large animal for a while, which didn't sit well with me because everything about large animal is all economics. And so it's hard to go, hey, look, this animal's life, when does it become more economical to have it alive versus dead and sacrifice and things like that? So that was tough. As far as small animal, it was fun, but your best customers are hypochondriacs. And so your best, I loved the people who would come in once a year, have a great conversation about vaccination, help them out, things like that. But there'd be people who would come in every week. And it's like, no, it's okay. Your cat has dandruff it's going to be okay. And so it just, it wasn't the right mix of care that I was looking for.
Sure, but I can understand why you'd want to get into a field like that. You love animals, you're a young person. It makes sense, but then the actual business of it isn't quite how you imagine it to be. So how old were you when you were doing that?
I was an undergrad. So I changed that late. So when students change majors and they're all worried, I decided between my junior and senior year I wasn't going to be a veterinarian anymore. And so I had that classic, you know, junior, senior year panic that a lot of our students do and be like, hey, I was there with you. And in fact, when I was making a choice to change where I was going, I took a year off, right? And so I'm not intimidated by the gap year either. And it helped me solidify where I wanted to be. And I realized that I really liked talking to the people and educating the people. And so that's when I'm like, okay, well, maybe maybe I want to teach. And then also doing a pretty thorough self-evaluation of I can't do K through 12. I was a pretty terrible kid K through 12. And so also, I just needed more passion from the students. So I get that not everybody's going to be interested in what I'm doing, but you have some motivation to be there. And so the PhD was just a means to an end to teach at this level. So the PhD was never the dream or the goal. It was a means to an end. It's a tool.
Interesting. So was it always a biology undergrad degree that you were in, or did you actually have to shift an emphasis in your undergrad?
No, I was a biology major with a Chem Minor. And then I was going to double major and then I decided to study abroad was more important. And so did that and dropped it to a minor, which study abroad's amazing. So traveling and getting to see different cultures and viewpoints, there's nothing better.
Yeah, okay. So then you decide to go to the PhD route. Where did you go to get your PhD?
Yeah. So, uh, to my great surprise, uh, I had some research background. And so I was able to work on hypothermic proteins and mice. And so I got quite a few good interviews. And I got top five, ten places around the country and I ended up actually here at the Scripps Research Institute in San Diego, which is now just Scripps Research. And I just loved it because everything was so applied. If there was going to be research going on, it was, how does it relate to health? How does it improve health? And that was really important to me. I love the basic scientists. Basic science is really important of how things function. But I needed something more applied just to keep my interest.
Okay. So obviously today, you're a phenomenal professor, teacher, researcher, you've done a lot here. I'm familiar with your experience here at Point Loma. When you entered a PhD program for the first time, knowing who we are or once were as students, what was that like? Did you have a bit of imposter syndrome as you went along?
100%. I mean, I remember going on grad interviews, and I went to the University of Wisconsin River Falls because at that time in Wisconsin, it sent the highest percentage of pre-vet students on a vet school. That was it. It was a total calculation. And I remember going on these graduate school interviews and they kept putting University of Wisconsin. Some would even put University of Wisconsin Madison. And I'm like, no, I'm from this Podunk University for these reasons. And, you know, you got students like, oh, yeah, you know, I'm from Harvard and I'm from Stanford and all this other stuff. And what I realized really quickly was that really didn't matter. It really mattered what your skill sets were and how you were able to scientifically think. And that's what mattered, which also helped me think about my teaching profession, right? That the name of the school isn't always as important as kind of what's going on there. And that's kind of also why I love the liberal arts small college is we get to do some pretty amazing stuff here, do some really transformative things. And it's not because there's a big name behind it. It's because we just care with our heart and give these students absolutely everything that we have.
Yeah, in fact, much of our education that we have in the sciences here is far out above some of the bigger universities in the air, whether it be the lab experience and the things students are exposed to. And we know this because when they hadn't turned into the field, we get that feedback that, my goodness, your Point Loma students are pretty incredible in the lab.
Yeah, and I think one of the things we focus on, and I think it's great, is just the amount of lab experience they have. And so as colleges have continued to grow like lab experiences have become smaller and smaller because there's unfunded load. They're expensive to run and it becomes, what are the critical skill sets? And so some of it's about critical skill sets. Some of it's about getting students comfortable in the lab. I think one of the things that we do great is by the time they get to their upper division labs, we're giving them open-ended questions and letting them explore. Like, what are the questions that you're actually going to ask outside of here? And I think that's's very different than just training a set of skills, which is important, and we get a chance to do that. But now we also get this upper layer where nope, we're giving you a general area to move and yeah, what are you going to do? What are you how are you going to experiment? How are you going to plan those experiments? Are you going to I want you to predict the results to see, am I going to get the data that I want? If not, how do I, how do I troubleshoot that experiment? Do the experiment, go, you know what? That didn't work. Because in fact, most experiments don't work and be able to troubleshoot and go, oh, yeah, okay, let's try this little change, this little change. And part of it is just that iterative process and science becomes this really iterative piece that is kind of a mindset more than like faxed, yes or no.
Maybe you can say a little bit more about that because we talked about that with folks thinking that science is a set of facts. And there's a lot of confusion that goes around that in misperceptions.
Yeah.
And I think COVID displayed that in spades, right?
So as we went through COVID, it was really interesting just to see how science has been portrayed. And science has been portrayed as this absolute truth, yes, no, memorize facts. We know this and that. And that's that's really it. And instead, it's a process. It's one viewpoint. And so science is really good at asking questions about the physical world, and that's it. I think part of what we saw in COVID was science was asking social questions. Science was people were trying, let me say, science wasn't asking that, but people were trying to put science in the position to ask social questions, psychological questions, economic questions. Right? I mean, a great example is science can't tell you how somebody feels, right? Artwork can tell you how somebody feels. Music can tell you how somebody feels. Literature can tell you how somebody feels. Science can't do that, right? So let's put it in the proper box of the questions that it can. And so science is really good at doing that, and we have to have some faith in that, but it's also an iterative process. And so what happened with COVID was we kept getting more and more information. And it's like, okay, well, we're pretty sure about this. We have some fuzzy edges, okay? And we kept learning more. And so as those things changed, if people come in with the mindset that it's a yes, no fact-based piece, that change and irative process becomes really uncomfortable. And then people started to use that and throw kind of the baby out with the bathwater. Well, if that changed, how can I trust any of this? Right. And so that became a real difficult piece. And I think it's just the way that the public perception of science has been in the past and the way it's been portrayed. I don't think anyone's to blame. I think it's just that's how many people viewed science. And I would say the scientific world didn't do a good job on educating that it's a process and that, yeah, this is what we think right now, and that might change.
And do you notice a difference in students then, as they come in now in terms of what they think science is as an 18 or 19 year old compared to when they leave? Has anything changed pre and post-COVID?
I think they have there's a more direct connection to science because they're like, oh, wow, science affected my world. And I find that almost humorous, right? Because all the way from, you know, construction, if you think about SEM, right, you're thinking about engineering, you're thinking about, hey, what is that computer doing? What is that medicine that I'm taking? But it just became very, very acutely apparent. Because even if you think about COVID, out of the science that's going on in the world, it's a fraction of percent of the science that went on during that time. And so if you think of it that way, it's just a really small part. It was an important part at that time. And then again, now it's less important and that's okay.
Yeah. Another distinctive of our programming is the type of research students are able to do during the summer. Can you talk about that?
Yeah. So one of the things that we love is we have a great summer research program. Students get to do 10 weeks of summer research at full-time. So it's about 400 hours each summer. Usually most students sign up for two summers. And to be completely frank, we pretty much treat these like intro grad students. And so they're getting experiences to have a project. They're planning out the experiments, they're completing the experiment, they're troubleshooting, and then we're getting them to present outside of campus, right? And so the way I kind of look at it is their scholarship is my scholarship, right? I could sit in a lab and do quite a bit, but I'm actually more proud of what they're able to do and how they're able to produce great data and go on and present it. And I've had students who literally have gone through my research lab and have said that's the most horrible experience of my life. And I'm like, that is wonderful. You have one less thing to think that you might want to be, right? You're interested in science. You're not a bench scientist, right? Great. Let's find what your passion is. And let's redirect. And so I also think it's a great place to have that experience and be able to say yes or no. Because too often people educate themselves into a corner, close too many doors without really knowing what that's like. I would say the same thing with some of our pre health students is it's really important to get shadowing time, right? Dealing with sick people is tough, right? They're not happy. They're probably not going to treat you that well. They might not understand you. They might push back. It's not as glorious as a lot of them really imagine it to be.
Yeah. So those are the realities of any sort of entry into a career field to find out, you, dip your toes in, whether the positive or negative experiences, it gets you a little bit closer. To think about the breadth of the types of careers, though, that biology students go into, they're not going to be all bench scientists. So where are the folks that you're mentoring, that you're advising? Where are they ending up in a year or five years from it?
Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty broad spread, right? So, I always kind of joke. I'm like, students come in knowing like five jobs. It's like police person, teacher, doctor, lawyer, right? That's pretty much where you end up. And so, I mean, I think one of the big things is students are like, oh, wow, do I really like small science or big science? Am I looking more at ecology? Do I like populations? Do I like being outside? Or do I like sitting on a bench and working on things that are invisible to the naked eye and doing that kind of indirect detection? And so then it's like, do I like being at the bench? Do I like thinking about this? Do I like writing about this? And so I think those are different parts too, right? Do I want to be into scientific writing? Do I want to be into scientific communication? That's an important thing is when you're communicating, are you communicating to a scientific audience, to a public audience, and there's people who have great skill sets there. We have artists who like, who do you think designs textbooks, right? How you have to have the biological knowledge. And so there's just a widespread, and it's kind of cool. Dr. Diane Anderson developed this whole tool that we have that looks at each kind of size of biology and offers up 10 or 15 different possible positions just to be like, okay, here are some ideas, because it's hard to branch out, because again, you're like, what am I going to be with this? And even when you move back from that, even if you don't end up in the sciences, having a science degree is a wonderful experience, because the transferable skill sets are there, right? You can plan out a project, you can look at data, you can analyze that data, and then you can refocus and move on from there. And so those kind of transferable skill sets work anywhere. And so that's, if science as a process, that's where the beauty is, is that could be done in the business world. That could be done in any field that you have.
And in your role, you've moved from being a professor to a chair, to an associate dean, so you very much are living through those administrative tasks and skill sets. Did your science background prepare for that?
Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that helps me the most out of the science background is I get unemotional about the data, right? It's one of the things you learn as a scientist is don't get wed to your hypothesis. It's a hypothesis. You test it. It may or may not be true. And so you go, that's data. You put it at arm's length. It's not any value comment on you. If it was successful or not, not a value comment on you. And so you look at a situation, and this isn't a value comment on me. And so how with whatever the resources is and what is this setting, how do I maximize this to make this the best possible thing for the students and the best possible thing for our faculty and staff so that they can shine the best? So it's it's kind of a fun position to sit where I am right now. I mean, I love that I still get to teach. I think that's wonderful. I love pouring into students. It's some of the most rewarding work you can do. But at the same point, I also realize, there's a lot of really stinking talented people we have here. And if I can make this part a little bit easier or resource them this way, it only allows them to shine even more, and that's a really fun position to be in.
Yeah, it is. To be able to facilitate someone else's success and a partner and and to see that growth is incredible. And that's what sometimes folks don't realize like that's a big payoff in administration. There's harder parts to it, but working for your colleagues is pretty incredible, especially with the type of talent we have here at Point Loma. And I can see it in your eyes as you describe it, because I know, and I can imagine the folks that you're talking about. So lastly, one of the topic of the day has been artificial intelligence. I mean, that is something that's on everyone's mind. And we did a workshop at the beginning of the year with a lot of leaders and it's a word association, when you hear artificial intelligence, what do you think of? And we got reactions from, oh my gosh, all kinds of opportunity, for learning, for growth, for information sharing. And then there's all also the fear. It's the end of the world. It's the demise of writing altogether. We're not going to be able to think critically. I'm curious, your take on AI. Are you utilizing it in the classroom? Are you seeing science professors use it? What's the general nature of what's you're observing?
Yeah, I mean, I think it is an amazing tool. I couldn't be more excited about it, right? And I think one of the first things I learned, I went to a three-day conference on this and actually another one at UCSD and actually, I think it was the one at UCSD. Somebody said, AI is not going to take your job. The person who knows how to use AI is going to take your job. And so if you think of it as a tool, it becomes a much more useful piece. I also lived through the internet generation where I remember doing my book reports out of encyclopedias, right? You were really lucky if you were that one family that had the set in your house. I mean, it made your work so much easier. Literally having friends come over to use your encyclopedias to read that one paragraph on, you know, like Grover Cleveland.
Show it off on that bookshelf, the mahogany bookshelf.
100%, right? And so, right, it was almost a badge of honor. And then, right, then we moved into, you know, Encyclopedia Britannica on the CD. I mean, that had a good decade and a half stranglehold, right? And then we got to this internet generation and people, when the internet came out, people were like, oh my gosh, what's happening? And, you know, this is going to be the end of the world. I mean, we had Y2K, which was a different problem than the internet.
Right?
None of that stuff comes to fruition. It becomes a tool so that people can be more efficient, right? And I think that's a real fun piece. And I think I allow my students to use it, right? At the same time, I use it for idea generation, sometimes just for writing. The hardest thing is getting the first thing on the paper. Hey, these are some of the things I'm thinking about. Can you give me a starter paragraph, right? Those kind of things. In fact, actually, it's Nobel Prize season. So the Nobel Prize just got awarded for protein structure. And some of the people who were awarded for that was actually an artificial intelligence that looks at all of the other protein structures that have been done and can form a predictive model to correctly predict those, which is actually really useful. So if you want to think about it, when we think about the human genome project or all the sequences we have, we know a very small fraction of what those protein structures actually look like. So this AI was actually able to go back, take the protein structures that we do know, and correctly predict them. So now we have a case to say, hey, look, for the majority that we don't know, we have a pretty good guess what they could look like or do. That is not something we could have done, right? When it comes to bioinformatics, if I showed you 3 billion base pairs of the human genome, our brain's not built to deal with that. And so we can do pattern recognition. How can I use AI to help me pull out those patterns? What does that look like? Right? And so it's just becomes a computational assistant to help you do those kinds of things and do calculations that we can't. And then you can go back and you're basically the editor. Oh, that wasn't so great. Maybe I need to change this variable. Or, wow, that was really amazing. I never thought of it from that viewpoint. And so it's just a starter of great thought. And it still requires the human and all of that, either to set the prompts, but also do additional analysis and to refine. And granted, I know we'll get better at that. AI will get better at those things, but there are hundreds and hundreds of AI models and resources that we can use. And I already know we're using dozens here, but there's so many more out there.
I appreciate those good words. I know there are fellow enthusiasts around campus as we think about that and as we want to prepare students to engage in a really, in a real world that they're going to have to learn how to utilize AI and a variety of disciplines. And so and employers are saying they need it.
Yeah, employers, why would you not use it if you have this great powerful tool? Why are you not using it? And so I think we also, as an education system, sometimes we get stuck in the past, right? I mean, we all loved our overhead projectors with the rolls of cellophane or whatever that was, right? Moving to power. Like, there's always that or what is the next learning management system, Blackboard, Canvas? And yes, nothing's perfect. But also, it opens new opportunities up, right? And learning management systems allows students to have more control over when they're viewing content. They can get updated grades, things like that, that just become really important. And so it'll be interesting to see what AI can help us provide students with, but also, I'm excited on the backside. What can AI do to help us predictively help students? Hey, we're noticing these trends. Maybe this could help this student or call out to me. It's like, oh, this area is, you know, maybe in lecture, you're not doing as great as you think you are and you're losing some students. And can we go back here and take a closer look?
Yeah, that's great. Well, Kris, thank you so much for joining me and being able to walk us through a little bit of your life here as a professor and as administrator and some of your expertise. I know we are collectively very thankful for your work over the past 10 years, and I am as well, as someone who works alongside of you in administration. I appreciate it so much. If folks want to follow or read about any of your work, would you suggest they go anywhere?
Probably just go on to the PLNU website or ResearchGate, right? So my research that I do with students is basically cars for drugs. How do we put drugs inside vehicles to have more specific targeting? And so if you're kind of interested in that, that's probably the better place to go. It's ResearchGate.
Super. Thanks so much.
All right. Thanks for having me.