Dr. Linda Beail is a Professor of Political Science and teaches courses in American politics, political theory, and gender & race politics. Her current research is on pleasure and anxiety in the pop culture representations of political women, with recent book chapters on Black Widow and gender in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and gender in presidential elections.
Listen to her Lomacast: A Point Loma Nazarene University Podcast below:
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Episode Transcript
Hello and welcome to Lomacast. A Point Loma Nazarene University podcast. My name is Jim Daichendt. I am the provost and chief academic officer here at Point Loma, and I just recently had the pleasure of interviewing Doctor Linda Beail. Doctor Beail is a professor of political science, and she just recently celebrated 30 years of service here at the university. With the Democratic National Convention just ending a few weeks ago, we took this time to analyze the convention, talk a bit about her expertise in gender and race politics, and also specifically talked about Harris's recent surge of support as a presidential candidate. I hope you enjoy, and thank you for listening.
Doctor Beail, I am so glad you're here on a little break from sabbatical to have a conversation with me.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, of course I you know, I think we've known each other now nine years that we've worked together at Point Loma. And I was very excited because I got to read, a little bit about your accomplishments, most recently at the anniversary. So at the beginning of the year, for folks who are listening, anyone who's celebrated 30, 35, 40 years, which we had one person celebrate 40 years. I get to read a little bit about your bio and all your accomplishments, which are very long, by the way, and I was excited to read yours. So it was very exciting. And I this is kind of I feel like a follow up to that.
Oh great.
So I know everyone has a story in terms of how they come to Point Loma, and I haven't actually heard yours. How did you find yourself as a professor here? Could you share a bit about that?
Sure. So I grew up in the Nazarene church. I didn't go to a Nazarene college. I went to Wheaton College. And then when I was at Wheaton, I had a political science professor who was very interested in religion and politics and the ways that people of different faiths, sort of voted and behaved politically. And so he made a point to know all of his students kind of backgrounds and what kinds of churches they came from. And I was the little Nazarene girl. And, so then later we were still good friends. And, I was finishing my PhD, and he called me and he said, hey, I don't know if you're still kind of connected with the Nazarene church, but I hear there's going to be a job at Point Loma. Do you know Point Loma?
And I did know friends and people who had gone here before. And so I called up the chair of the political science department and said, I hear there might be a job I'd be very interested in applying. And, yeah. So it just went from that conversation. He was very excited, to find someone who was getting a PhD in American politics who, really understood a little bit about the mission of this place and really cared about the Nazarene sort of heritage and social justice and all those kinds of things.
And, so I started to meet professors and the dean and, it was just a really happy, happy. It was a new line in political science. And they were like, what do we need to have in American politics? And I was like, I can tell you. So, so I got to come and I was pretty young.I was only a few years older than my students. So we kind of all were helping each other, those first few years. And it's just been such a great thing. So I feel so fortunate and it's been such an amazing community to be part of, amazing colleagues, wonderful students. So I'm really, really happy that I got to spend my life and my career here.
Yeah, me as well. And I can thank you on behalf of everyone here for everything you've done for this community, how you've pushed us forward in so many different ways. As someone who is involved in a field that is so relevant to like what we're how we're living our lives, and how you've been able to facilitate those conversations, for our students, but also for our faculty and for myself. So I know we've worked together as administrator and professor over the years. So I'm always appreciative of, of you and and what you've done here. So I appreciate that. So let's jump into some like politics okay? Let's ask our expert here. And obviously if you haven't heard we're in election season.
Oh really. Yeah I was unaware.
Yeah. So I mean we are all being bombarded constantly and and you've been on so many TV shows, radio, podcasts, sharing your expertise. And I know, this is an appropriate time to do that, but you also have a lot of experience just doing that over time. But Joe Biden's decision to step down and not run for reelection is a historic moment in American politics, and that's only happened a few times before, if I'm aware. But I was hoping to get your read on that situation and, and that narrative and how it's transpired.
Yeah, we're in really uncharted waters here. I feel like I've said that a lot over the past several years in American politics. But, most of the time when a sitting president decides not to run for reelection and which is really rare, it's because they realized long before even the primaries and the election year starts that maybe there are some reasons why they are really unpopular or, it's not going to be a great thing for them to run again. So I think this is really unprecedented to have somebody get into the summer of like, we're almost to the general election by the end of June. And I think all of us as political scientists, were quite surprised that he didn't. We really had the impression that, okay, this is not going well politically for him, but he's going to hang on like nobody just walks away at this point.
And so I think that was very surprising. But also so many things about this election cycle are, you know, different and unique. I mean, we've had the two oldest people running for president that we've ever had, and neither one of them is very popular. We have a lot of what we call the double haters, the people who are just unhappy with both choices.
So a lot of things that are unique about this election year, and I think this change, from who we thought the candidate was going to be on the Democratic side to who it now is with Kamala Harris, has been something that has maybe hopefully, in my opinion, because I love to see people care about politics, talk about politics, engage and participate in politics, something that has kind of rejuvenated, juiced up the race a little bit and gotten people's attention and gotten us all paying more attention and feeling more committed to using our voices and using our votes.
Yeah, I've definitely felt that surge of excitement or interest, I should say, in politics most recently. And I'm glad you brought Harris into this narrative, because that seemed to be a surprise to some that she was the nominee, and it happened so quickly. And then the surge of support for her just it felt like overnight. And like you said, the transition was so fast. Can you talk about that? That's been fascinating to me. Yeah. So surprising. I and I think the first question, after the debates and people were asking me, do you think Joe Biden is going to quit? And I was like, wow, that's hard to imagine. Even though he's not doing great. And then the next question, and even people who've been in politics for a long time or like.
But what how in the world would we handle this? How would we figure out who the nominee is going to be? So I think it is surprising that it happened so quickly and coalesced in such unity around her as the candidate. So basically, not with a lot of rancor or a lot of fighting infighting in the party, I will say.
I mean, it is interesting that we just had the Democratic convention in Chicago, and of course, the most famous national political party convention in Chicago is 1968, which is infamous for, the rioting that took part or the protesting that took part in Grant Park there, and the police response and, I think a lot of people were like, oh, no, it's going to be either literally or metaphorically very similar, like they're all the different pieces of the party fighting.
So I think I am amazed but very intrigued that the Democratic Party is acting unlike, political parties in the United States often act, which is like having so many disparate elements and doing a lot of fighting, and there's a relative amount of chaos. They are acting more like parties that we see in other parts of the world, that where the individual at the top of the ticket is maybe important, but not the main key thing that these Democrats want to win.
They would like to win this election. They do not want to see Donald Trump back in the White House. And they looked around and they said she makes the most sense in terms of being the sitting vice president. If something happened to Joe Biden today, she would be the person sitting in the Oval Office. So clearly, and Americans voted for her both last time around in the general election, but also in these primaries this spring. They knew that she was number two in the line of succession. And, I think also that they didn't want to have a fight. It wasn't about picking the perfect personality. It was about moving. And I think the convention was really good at showing us that so many different people from across the party and so many of the people who were like, maybe they would be her rivals, or maybe they would be vice president.
They all kind of showed up unified and all speaking on behalf of similar policies and on behalf of her candidacy. And so I think this unity is a little stunning to those of us who were longtime observers of American politics, but also like, oh, this is how other parties actually govern. They, they, they get it together and they say, we're not all the same. We're not all alike, we're not all perfect, but we have a shared mission and agenda, and we're all going to see this through and work together to see it through. Yeah, that's helpful to hear. I, I can't help but in especially in this question is specifically framed for you as someone who looks at gender in politics, it's hard not to see the masculine, language, bravado that has come out through, to the Trump candidacy and examples, comparing strength, Biden's golf game with Trump's golf game.
Hulk Hogan at the convention. Right. And then comparing that to Harris's campaign, and how would you frame that? And how do you make sense of that as, as an expert in this field? Well, as somebody who's thought about gender and politics for a long time, and especially the sort of question that has always come up from students and from just friends and people in the public, you know, why?
Why have we never had a woman president? And I think there's a lot to unpack there about sort of the masculinity of this particular office of being commander in chief. And so I think for women who have run for governorships and certainly for the presidency, this has been, a thing to sort of navigate, like how do I remain sort of feminine in a way that is authentic to myself or appealing to voters? But also strong enough, masculine enough, if you will, to hold this job and wield power in this way. And what I think is happening in this election that is so fascinating to me is that we are focusing a lot less on the women and femininity and focusing much more, as you said, on masculinity. And what are the sort of, narratives or archetypes or structures of masculinity.
And so, yes, on the one hand, you saw at the Republican convention, Hulk Hogan and, you know, ripping off the shirt to introduce Trump and all of that kind of stuff. And, and I think what you saw at the Democratic convention and in the picking of Tim Walz as the running mate, is a different performance of masculinity.
Right? Walz is fascinating to me. Because he's the Midwestern dad, the coach. Right. There's nothing weak or wimpy about him. He's a football coach. Like there's there's some real archetypal American masculine things there, but there's also that side of masculinity. I've heard someone say, it's not toxic masculinity. It's toxic masculinity. Interesting. And so a masculinity that is maybe not threatened by strong women who are also competent and good at their jobs were powerful.
And men who are, you know, clearly love their families and, you know, I know there was a lot at the convention, too, about the, the photo and, and stuff of Tim Walz, his son being so overcome by emotion, so proud of his dad and crying and, you know, people either found that appealing or some people found that not appealing.
But I think this opening up, this is what I'm interested in with women in politics, is that there's not just maybe one way to be feminine or one way to be a woman and a woman with power. But maybe there could be multiple narratives and ways to think about that. And that gets us out of that sort of, catch 22 of it. And there's many ways and many modes and many stories. And I think maybe that's what we're seeing right now with masculinity in American politics as well, is that it doesn't have to mean just one thing, or it doesn't have to necessarily be who sort of can out bravado or out macho someone else in a pretty simplistic way. But there can be many modes of thinking about masculinity, and I'm interested in that, not just for who wins an election, but I'm interested in that for how it affects all of us in our everyday lives and in our culture and the narratives we have available to us as ordinary people about how to be wives, mothers, husbands, fathers, competent in our workplaces, all of those kinds of things.
Yeah, that that's super helpful to hear because so often these narratives and, American politics are told to us over and over in the morning at breakfast, on the radio or television, and they have a big impact on how we understand ourselves, our spouses, our kids. And they can be healthy and they can be absolutely, incredibly not healthy for us. And obviously, that's something that you're concerned with with Harris and her multiple she has lots of different types of identities we could talk about. And so I would love for you to deconstruct some of them. Because she is someone who served as vice president, but she also has this persona as just a very fun person.
You know, she doesn't have her laugh that that's been, so, yeah. Could you break down Harris for us in terms of as a professor and how you have understood her? Sure. I mean, I, I find it really fascinating, and many people have commented on this, that she is not leaning really explicitly and hard into, like, I'm a woman. Vote for me because I'm a woman. I'd be the first woman president. And obviously, maybe that goes without saying. Like, maybe we're not unaware that she's a woman. And that would be a historic moment, of breaking that glass ceiling. But I think, she in many ways embodies what I see in a lot of my students, which is, of course, we're not denying our femininity, but it's not the only thing that's important about us. And we don't have to think gender is determinative of all things. We have more room to be unique individuals and, have a multiplicity of personalities and gifts and talents and so I think her confidence in just not denying anything, I mean, she's she clearly enjoys being a stepmother to those children. And I think her husband's speech was very, fun and humanizing at the convention. And we saw that kind of side of her. So I think she's not trying to which which has been the advice, honestly, to a lot of women in politics in past decades is downplay or femininity. Be try to fit in wearing a suit all the time. Like try to don't look like a woman, right? Or or act soft or be tough on crime and all these things. And I think she's maybe transcending a little bit and saying, like, I don't have to pretend like I'm one of the guys, but I also don't have to be like, I'm a woman, vote for me. So, I think maybe she's creating, again, more space for someone who can be not just tough, but also joyful, who can laugh, who can laugh at herself, who can bring that kind of energy to the campaign and make it something that all of us can assume as men and women.
We have been multifaceted. Like this. I think she's leaning much more into, other things that Americans might relate to in terms of her story of being a child of immigrants coming through different movements like the civil rights movement, all of those kinds of things. So I don't think her I don't think gender is irrelevant at all in this election, but I also think maybe we're dealing with it in more complex ways. And not as simplistic as we have in the past. Yeah. No, that's super helpful. And I wouldn't expect anything less from you in being able to analyze in that way. So thank you so much. And that's a taste of also Professor Bill's classroom in terms of how you have to navigate, a very complex student body and American audience and international audience with, American politics.
And I know you have so much practice in facilitating conversations where folks feel heard and respected. Can you talk a little bit about your advice for facilitating and what you do to be able to host those conversations, discussions and lectures where I know you're also teaching about the material, how do you do that? And this like what seems like more and more polarized society?
I think I'm always aware when I walk into a classroom that I don't know everything about the people sitting in front of me, and what all the life experiences and perspectives that they bring and that they are varied and that they are not necessarily going to understand one another, much less that, I don't know. And so I think it's less about having any real tricks, tips and techniques as much as entering those spaces. And this is easy to say, but hard to do. But really, being curious about other people and also a sense of humility. I mean, maybe this is where my faith is really helpful. But I, I value the people that I am around, even when they are very different from me. And I know I have things to learn from their life experience. And I think a sense of humility and not thinking that I already know what's best or I already know it all, or thinking that anyone in this room is better than anyone else. Right? But just really having a sense of how finite my own knowledge is and, really caring and having real compassion and real concern, but also real curiosity about the people in front of me.
So in my classroom or just, again, with other people, I'm with, or when I'm on TV, you know, helping answer some questions about politics, I think I'm always, I'm not trying to in any way convince or persuade or indoctrinate students ever. I'm trying to help them discover both, more about the world that they are navigating and also more about their own values, perspectives, and how to apply those and come to their own conclusions. And why do they believe the things they believe or think the things they think? And so my role really, as a political scientist is to provide history, context, research. Let me let me tell you how this election is so unique and unlike what we've experienced in the past, or whatever it is, in ways that help all of us be more thoughtful for ourselves, not to try to harangue anyone into any particular position.
Yeah, that's absolutely beautiful. We're so lucky to have you here. So I'm lucky to be here. And so I know you have published many books written many articles. And you always have something exciting on the forefront and what you're working on. For folks listening, is there anywhere we could point them if they want to follow along, learn about your publications, etc.?
You can just find me, I guess, on Instagram, where I'm most on social media. But I'm definitely not, you know, one of those people that's on X or Twitter kind of haranguing everyone all day long. But in terms of if you're interested in some of the work I do on, like, politics and popular culture, I have a really interesting chapter about, women and gender in the Marvel Cinematic Universe in a book called The Politics of the MCU. Available anywhere. Books are sold. And, the last, book that I edited with my good friend, Doctor Lilly Gorin is on, The Politics of Mad Men, the television show, and the Remaking of Modern America. So that's another place where you could see some of the some of the things I'm up to. Absolutely. We're going to do this again.
Oh, fantastic. I love talking about politics all the time. Yeah. But thank you so much. I appreciate it, doctor.
Jim, you're very welcome. Thanks for having me.